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The detainees were never charged with crimes.
"We found clear physical and psychological evidence of torture and abuse, often causing lasting suffering," said Dr. Allen Keller, a medical evaluator for the study.
Exams reveal abuse, torture of detainees - CNN.com
Seeded on Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:34 AM EDT
Article Source: CNN- Enjoy this article? Help vote it up the 'Vine.
- Public Discussion (68)
People have to go to jail for this. The U.S. doesn't have a leg to stand on if we allow it and this weakens the position of any U.S. POWs. It's idiotic.
- 13 votes
#1 - Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:37 AM EDTPeople have to go to jail for this.
I bet they will want a fair trial, setting of bail and a good attorney, which of course, we will give to them.
- 11 votes
"this weakens the position of any U.S. POWs. " Um, The enemy doesn't take prisoners. They just kill and usually in a very slow and grotesque manner such as manually cutting off a soldier's head.
The U.S. takes prisoners instead of just summarily executing the enemy.
- 2 votes
The enemy doesn't take prisoners.
It doesn't matter what other people do. Either you are behaving within agreed moral frameworks, or you are not. And in this instance, America was not.
- 10 votes
It doesn't matter what other people do.
No kidding. What was it my mama said about my friends jumping off a bridge? She was talking about my friends!
Um, The enemy doesn't take prisoners.
THE ENEMY? We've had many enemies. We don't just have one. Ask John McCain about whether the enemy takes POWs or not.
- 9 votes
These reports (and as the article notes, this is hardly the first and only) should outrage every American citizen, whose tax dollars are going to support such immoral and unjustifiable activities. And yet is somehow manages to remain a subject of debate, with many still refusing to believe our government would engage in torture and/or trying to selectively define the word in order to feel better. It's well past time these prisons were closed and their procedures investigated.
- 11 votes
#2 - Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:03 AM EDTAnd yet is somehow manages to remain a subject of debate, with many still refusing to believe our government would engage in torture and/or trying to selectively define the word in order to feel better.
I see a frightening parallel here to Nazi Germany. During the 1930s, people just couldn't believe their government could be responsible for -- much less the driving force behind -- such human cruelty. Some scholars believe that this was actually one of the reasons that programs like the Final Solution were (relatively) successful; subjective, or selective, acknowledgment of reality. Sadly, it looks like we've learned nothing, and much of humanity just hasn't evolved at all from its bloody heritage.
- 6 votes
The blind-eyes there are legion. Please, US citizens, take back your constitution!
- 6 votes
People, read the whole article and not just the headline and excerpt...
Since only 11 detainees were examined "the findings of this assessment cannot be generalized to the treatment of all detainees in U.S. custody," the report says.
And take note that the group sponsoring the report is anything but un-biased and objective. They have their an agenda. I'm not saying their wrong, only that they're biased and commissioned the study to prove what they wanted proven, not to find out what the truth is or isn't.
- 1 vote
#3 - Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:54 AM EDTIt still says that these eleven were abused. We can't go on just their assessment, there will need to be second and third opinions I hope. I would also hope that these doctors would assume the same. The call for people to be held accountable, obviously depends on if their findings are verifiable. As the administration is losing steam, there seems to be more and more evidence and investigation.
The report is prefaced by retired U.S. Major Gen. Antonio Taguba, who led the Army's investigation into the Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse scandal in 2003.
- 2 votes
Oh yeah and, um, detainees both current and former LIE ABOUT THEIR TREATMENT. Go figure a murderous terrorist would lie... who'da thunk it? I love the way some people around here are willing to take what an accused criminal says at face value as fact. The fact is, they lie. and lie and lie and lie to try to get the press and public to have sympathy for them, undermine the U.S. military and hopefully gain their freedom. In that regard, they are no different than the common douchebag criminals in prisons all across the country.
There was even one incident where a prisoner was screaming to a reporter that he was being tortured by having food witheld... while the guard was BRINGING HIM HIS FOOD TRAY. Idiot.
By the way, who has vetted this report? Who was verified its claims and accuracy? Where is the corroboration? Or is it merely accusations that no-one is allowed to question?
- 2 votes
#4 - Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:07 PM EDTI love the way some people around here are willing to take what an accused criminal says at face value as fact.
Sorta like the Congress took Bush's word with no evidence about WMDs in Iraq. Or yellow-cake Uranium that didn't exist. I'm sure the irony is lost on you. You hawks are hilarious if you weren't @!$%#ting up our country so badly.
- 5 votes
I think you failed to realize this was a group that was trained to recognize the effects of long term abuse.
Whatever you say, abuse by the US doesn't make it right and doesn't help any of our troops if taken prisoner.
- 10 votes
Matt,
Sorry the plausible deniability argument is no longer going to fly.
- 8 votes
Matt,
One can lie till their face turns blue, but this panel was not just asking them questions.
In a 121-page report, the doctors' group said that it uncovered medical evidence of torture, including beatings, electric shock, sleep deprivation, sexual humiliation, sodomy and scores of other abuses.
You can't say someone wasn't beaten when they're lying in front of you broken and bleeding. Also, who said they were murderous terrorists? None had even been charged, much less convicted. Also:
However, the incidents documented are consistent with findings of other investigations into government treatment, "making it reasonable to conclude that these detainees were not the only ones abused, but are representative of a much larger number of detainees subjected to torture and ill treatment while in U.S. custody."
- 10 votes
I do not understand how anyone, anywhere, could still be trying to defend the government's actions with regard to torturing totally uncharged, unconvicted prisoners. The reason the doctors were able to get to these 11 former detainees, if one reads the article, is that after being tortured and mistreated for a year or more, they were all released without ever having the first charge filed against them. There were pictures of what went on ab Abu Ghraib, but I guess some people failed to look at them, so they can still pretend it never happened. This is not just a shame and a disgrace, but a scandal that has lost us all of the respect we once had in the rest of the world. The people who should be taken to court may include the actual torturers, but the main culprit is the administration who ordered the prisoner mistreatment and then lied about it. Both Bush and Cheney should be impeached now, not taken to court after they leave office. Kucinich has it right.
- 9 votes
#5 - Wed Jun 18, 2008 1:11 PM EDT"There is no longer any doubt that the current administration committed war crimes," Taguba says. "The only question is whether those who ordered torture will be held to account."
It doesn't matter if it was 10 people or 10,000. The evidence is irrefutable that this administration condoned torture. Brutal, systematic, long running torture. And I'm sure some apologists for the administration will say something idiotic like, "Well...well...the other guys do it too and worse." Which, even if it's true, is not germane to the fact that it's against the law for our side to torture, remember we're supposed to be the good guys.
Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice and all the rest of the axis of evil on the Potomac must be held accountable.
- 8 votes
#6 - Wed Jun 18, 2008 1:28 PM EDThey anigma,
Please do not compare a group of religous terrorists who would cut off your head and burn your family alive if they had the chance, to the jews during the Hitler era. There is no comparison!!! The jews were innocent people and hated only because they had more money than most people. and that was because they learned how to make money off money. Now i do not believe in torture on any account however unfortunately I dont have an answer for what our government has to do to keep us safe. and throughout history you will see that any large governing rule had to do some horrible things to keep there citizens safe. but please do not compare our government to Nazi Germany @!$%# that is just stupid.
- 1 vote
#7 - Wed Jun 18, 2008 3:08 PM EDTOver the years, reports of abuses at Abu Ghraib and allegations of torture at Guantanamo prompted the Bush administration to deny that the U.S. military tortures detainees.
Accountability is what we need. The Bush administration lied (but I didn't swallow). They have dragged us all down, and they must pay. Fortunately for them, an eye for an eye (or torture) is not allowed in our prisons (there must be a memo about that somewhere...).
- 4 votes
#9 - Thu Jun 19, 2008 9:38 AM EDTDon't delude yourself into thinking they will pay. Our men and women who have died and been maimed have paid while these self-serving politicians remain untouched. Nothing will happen because you have the Rush Limbaughs, Sean Hannitys and the Ann Coulters of the world defending the hawks to their puppets who follow their every word and then try to tell us we are unpatriotic if we question.
We have to become more knowledgeable, more vocal and demand more accountability from our politicians - from the local level on up. What starts out as noble ambition in wanting to serve the public more often than not becomes corrupt once they have the taste of power. We have the power to change that IF we don't become complacent.
- 5 votes
One-sided sugary sweet garbage! "Detainees", "never charged", "their rights" Horse Pucky!
These terrorist Criminals caught in the middle of mayhem and death they created against the United States should be happy all they have been is interrogated. Roles reversed these same poor animals would be on you-tube slicing of the heads of their detainees, But yes its true they might not waterboard you before the beheading so I guess their not as bad as the big bad USA.
Poor Casandra wonders how anyone can condone torture? Be-headings and killings by the enemy she does not question? The fact that their hate is so strong that they would slit her throat without a blink of an eye escapes her. She wants to treat these animals as pet kittens or something.
Wheel wants mercy on the beasts but lets get those bastards in Washington and lock them up because allow these piles of trash to be touched makes the politicians the ones that should suffer the most, yeah, tell that to the 3000 plus that died in NYC.
Enigma wants to compare the USA to Nazi Germany? What? the interrogation of a few hundred terrorists is equal to the killing of hundreds of thousands of Innocent men woman and children? Putz
JC Atom wants to free the abused to return and try to kill us again, and "People have to go to jail for this." ? Yep lets release the criminals and make the warden and guards pay for there actions.
Well at least Allan and Matthew seem to see the whole picture perhaps the 3 of us should be held accountable for have bad thoughts against the poor, poor criminal terrorist's.
Sickening me to see supposed Americans trash their own nation, Did you enjoy 9/11 as well, really you did didn't you. I know you.
- 1 vote
#10 - Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:22 PM EDTbobo,
do you actually read this drivel or are you just striking the keys without thought? Frankly, from the quality of this remark I can't really tell.
- 5 votes
The main drift of his arguments seem to be: 1. They did it first and they do it worse. 2. The 9-11 attacks are the carte blanche for everything. Though invalid, they are arguments we ignore at our peril because we will encounter them again and again.
- 5 votes
JC Atom wants to free the abused to return and try to kill us again, and "People have to go to jail for this." ? Yep lets release the criminals and make the warden and guards pay for there actions.
I said nothing of freeing prisoners. I did say that we should hold torturers accountable.
Do you know that the government tortured the 20th hijacker so much that he is broken and unable to stand trial? They quietly dropped all charges against him a couple of weeks ago! THE 20TH HIJACKER! Tortured so much by our guys that the people of the U.S. can't even hold him accountable for his plans or his actions.
You're welcome to your opinion, but it's obvious that terrorism has won in your heart if you are so afraid of them that you would rather give up your country's integrity and keep people who may be innocent behind bars and torture them than do what the law says. You do know that the Supreme Court just backed up the Constitution instead of the administration don't you?
You are their victory if you really believe what you wrote. It is what they want. For you to be afraid.
- 6 votes
#11 - Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:19 PM EDTAmen! What he is failing to acknowledge is that they were never charged! Actually, he's not thinking, he's just regurgitating the rhetoric spewed by the Hannitys, Coulters, etc. who regurgitate the rhetoric put out by the Administration. Sad, isn't it?
- 6 votes
It is indeed a strange legal brew. What the administration wants to do is gradually build a legal system outside the regular judiciary. Now that
- laws can be passed by presidential decree,
- laws coming from Congress can be ignored through "signing statements" and
- we have a military extra-judiciary legal system,
there is nothing standing in the way of the unitary executive. It all rests squarely on the acceptance of the all encompassing "global war on terror(-ism)" as a genuine war. Without this war mandate, the whole house of cards would collapse (I hope).
- 7 votes
#12 - Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:38 AM EDTThey also use an extra-military military...if I were a conspiracy theorist, I'd be wondering if Bush's next job is going to be CEO of Blackwater...actually that would be Cheney.
- 4 votes
There's a conspiracy against conspiracy theories, at least, that's my theory :-P
- 4 votes
my opinions are mine, just mine, basiclly no differant then your opinions being yours.
Calling one out for his/her opinions is called debate.
Insulting one for having an opinion with names and such is childish.
- 2 votes
#13 - Fri Jun 20, 2008 12:34 PM EDTI believe you have a significant opinion. It signifies fear.
This is what you just wrote...
Insulting one for having an opinion with names and such is childish.
...and these are the childish names you began with...
Putz
supposed Americans
garbage!
I'm not insulting you by the way. I don't think that is constructive. I don't think that it is the proper response even though you began by insulting the others for their opinions.
Maybe you're trying a little trick...to see if maybe someone will respond in the way you began...to illustrate some hypocricy? See if people will sink to the level of their attacker? Not working.
- 5 votes
bobo,
If you want rational discussion, we can do that. But that spew you put forth is neither rational nor a discussion. Want better responses? Write sensible remarks.
- 2 votes
and those remarks must be sensible,............. to you I take it?
- 1 vote
they must be sensible to people at large, I am one of those people.
- 1 vote
Hey bobo You left me out!!!! I agree with you whole heartedly too!! Hhahaahah. JK but yes you do make alot of points. And thank you for being strong with your convictions.
- 1 vote
#14 - Fri Jun 20, 2008 12:54 PM EDTThe Putz remark was over the top, I admit that but using Hitler as a comparison was enough to elicit the name. Supposed Americans and Garbage were generalization's only.
- 1 vote
#15 - Fri Jun 20, 2008 1:10 PM EDTA analogy if you will.
Here in Arizona a Police officer leaves a dog in his car, it dies from the heat. This Officer was arrested, publicly chastised by everyone, charged, and lost his job. Although he was not jailed his life here was ruined.
2 Parents on separate occasion's did the same, only with their own babies. when the courts were trying to prosecute them, there was an outcry of how dare these poor people be blamed for such an accident.
Peoples prioritys are back asswards is my point.
- 1 vote
#16 - Fri Jun 20, 2008 1:16 PM EDTPlease show me the aspects of these stories that are analogous to the justification for torture...I don't understand...not picking up what you're putting down.
The stories you gave are an example of injustice.
I'm assuming that it would be an injustice not to torture people who aren't even charged with a crime...just to see what comes out, besides bodily fluid?
I am not saying that any of the people being held are innocent. I have no idea, but I don't think we are going to be able to get a clear picture of who did what through torture.
I am saying that, if our people are guilty, they should be held accountable. The lesser of two evils is still evil. Just because we didn't cut their heads off, doesn't mean that we did what was right.
- 3 votes
No your not Bobo, it just sucks that this world is composed of so many confusing issues. Im a believer that a government that has so much to protect can not always do it in a way that is civilized. Its just the way it is. I read all these responses and hear the anger in peoples blogs, but the fact still remains, We are dealing with a very scary religious sect and although all are not western haters, the ones who are, are capable of horrible acts. So one has to put themselves in our governments position. I mean really put yourself in a person with an American high powered position. What would you do to keep the United States and life as we know it safe and protected. If it was on your shoulders to find out what the other side was up to, or where are they going to attack next. WHAT WOULD YOU RULE OUT, AND WHAT WOULD YOU NOT RULE OUT. Remember it is your responsibility for our protection. Think about it. See it is easy to sit back and fire off your opinions about our government from the comfort of ones small world, then pretend your are riotous for your convictions. It is much more difficult to actually make a decision about the welfare of millions of people. And try to decide which out come is the less of two evils. There are situations so much grander here, it is incomprehensible to imagine what our politicians have on their shoulders on a daily basis. I for one do not want to see another Sept 11th. EVER And what ever has to be done to secure that then let it be. I don't pretend to know dates, stats, facts or articles written, but I do know this, The United States is hated by a religion that suppresses every one from women to other religions in this world. And they do it in an extremely violent way. THAT IS FACT. The extremists want to take over the world as the psychotic Hitler did, and it is scary to think they could gain the power to do so. So I say, Do we walk away and hide, or do we stand up and fight for freedom of religion for all mankind. I know what I choose does anyone else. And if forced to make a decision, would it be for the survival of freedom for our children's children or something that would be less invasive on our enemy's soil. Tough questions to answer Huh. So I leave you with this, The right choice usually is the hardest to make so all I can do is pray for our troops, our president and the poor innocent Muslims who have been suppressed and destroyed by these same terrorist acts. Thank you.
God Bless this World and all the children that have to make up for the evilness that the adults have brought fourth. God Bless you Bobo, JCATOM and Wheel
- 1 vote
#18 - Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:11 PM EDTCatrina,
Your scare tactics have no force behind them. It's a choice to obey the law and abide by treaties and rules governing international behavior or being criminals. If we become what we are fighting we've already lost. The is no excuse for torture...NONE.
- 3 votes
I have no scare tactics wheel, just looking at reality not wishing the big bad monster would go away,
- 1 vote
#19 - Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:23 PM EDTHi Catrina
Please could you reply to comments within their threads? That way single conversations don't take up 15 threads.
Thanks, and welcome to the vine :)
- 2 votes
Yes Catrina, it's an attempt to frighten people into agreeing with you by using some odious example. Sorry, it's a scare tactic. But in the face of fear or doubt we must remain a nation that obeys the law or we are not a nation at all, just another gang of thugs with nuclear weapons.
- 4 votes
OH and Wheel since your soooooooooooooooooo wise please you have yet to give us the almighty answer of what would you do if the responsibility was on your shoulders. Remember give us a reality answer not one that is so far fetched that it could never happen. thnks
- 1 vote
#20 - Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:29 PM EDTI would obey the law, unlike the criminals in the current administration. Torture is wrong Catrina, it's really that simple, it's not just wrong when it's convenient, it's wrong all the time. Your childish responses do more than my replies to illustrate the weakness of your position.
- 4 votes
Wheel fear and doubt is not the face we as a nation are looking at....... it is the face of annihilation as a country. And My odious example is fact not something I made up or scare tactic. Im not going to sit up here and live in some fantasy world and pretend that every thing will work out as long as we respect our enemy!! Im a realist Wheel and let me note that people are already frightened.... I think the horrible acts done on September 11th handled that one. Me discussing the reality of the situation is not going to make them anymore scared. Im asking a very very difficult question to the public and to you, not using a scare tactic. It is easy to tap dance around the problem while throwing out your opinions and convictions it is alot harder to come up with a solution to a problem that could cost the security of the country where you can go get your damn starbucks with out getting blown up. And for the record We as a united states do not want to wipe the Arab world off the face of the map as they would do to us. So Again Wheel I ask you what should we do to the detainees that are in our custody, that are accused of being terrorists. Please Im waiting.
- 1 vote
#21 - Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:29 PM EDTEven if no one can give you an answer, even if there is no right way to do it, does not justify doing it the wrong way. You cannot claim the moral high ground whilst travelling the low path.
- 2 votes
Our annihilation as a country?!? Come now! And you claim to not be a fear monger! For shame.
Catrina, I didn't tap dance, I answered your question, you're simply filled with fear and want others to fear with you. NO, doing wrong because of fear is still doing wrong. How are you not getting this?
- 4 votes
Ah dungbeetlemania, you said it, no one CAN give an answer. Im not claiming the high ground. far from it Im asking what SHOULD our government do????? See all you have are stupid come backs to what im asking. No solutions!!!! IF you dont have a damn intelligent then stop responding!!!!
Wheel,
I am fearful, for I have a daughter who I pray wont see the day of terrorism touching our soil again THATS MY FEAR!!! And I dont give a rats ass about some detainees and there well fare when they would kill me and my family in a heart beat!! NO I dont care!!!! MY daughter is innocent and the prisoners accused of terror are not so dont give me your leftwing "our government is evil" and "may be if we bring our enemy our leaders heads on a platter they will spare us" bull@!$%#! They would kill You too a even with your "im on your side attitude"!!! And yes I said Annihilation and you are so far removed from their hatred for us it is scary. so like I said to the beetle guy what is your answer to the problem. Shooot I might agree with it if your intelligent ass came up with one. So far you are just waisting my time. PS IT is not doing wrong because of fear, it is doing wrong for the greater good!!!
- 2 votes
#22 - Mon Jun 23, 2008 5:39 PM EDTdo you think you're the only one with family over there? or do you think you care more for your children than others do?
I did answer your question, what should we do? We should obey the law, that's the first thing. If we don't do that nothing else we do really matters.
- 4 votes
As above Catrina, please keep replies within the current thread.
I am sorry you are scared, but if you don't give a rat's ass about them how can you expect them to give a rat's ass about you?
- 4 votes
Beetle Guy
They DONT give a rats ass. Thats just it. And for these specific groups of people the only way they would care, if at all is if we were Muslim!!! And we would have to be the specific sect of Muslim that they are. Because you know there is more than one. Understand.......... So I dont expect them to give a rats ass, what I expect is for them to not be murders, build up their own country, respect the citizens in their country and the differing views and endorse peace. So you have your opinion, NO Solution still, but your opinion and I respect that. I really do, but like I said to wheel, Mine is different. God Bless America
- 1 vote
so catrina, you retreat to the ultimate redoubt of the incompetent and intolerant, patriotism. Tsk Tsk. What I expect is for my country to obey the law, what other people do must not and should not make us retreat from that position. Even ignorant and fearful citizens like you catrina, must not be allowed to influence our govt from the path of law and ethical behavior.
- 2 votes
Catrina, I don't have an answer, because what you are demanding is unreasonable. You are asking for a way to keep Americans absolutely safe, without this being at the expense of non-Americans. It is not possible to value the life of one nationality above others without affecting those nationalities adversely.
You would prefer me (and many other Newsviners) to be tortured, regardless of innocence, than an American life was lost. You don't care that we are innocent, the end justifies the means.
Well I am sorry, but your country and many others have agreed that the end does not justify the means, and that some behaviours are morally repugnant and therefore cannot be condoned. This is irrespective of how the other side in a dispute is behaving.
So no, I do not have an answer. If you still demand one, ask your government for one that does not break internationally agreed legal frameworks, that America had a strong hand in drafting.
- 3 votes
Wheel,
Did you even read my last post???? I Did not say I had family over there!! AND HOW DARE YOU ASSUME THAT I CARE ABOUT MY CHILD MORE THAN SOME ONE ELSE WOULD ABOUT THEIRS!!!!! WHERE DID I SAY THAT. What are you trying to do here??? I said that my child is innocent and the people they have detained are not. They are linked to terrorist and other plots to kill innocent people. Christian, Jew and MUSLIM!!!! So excuse me if I don't really care how our government treats them while detained. Now your solution is we should obey the law. That's fine I respect that, I really do. My opinion just happens to be different. God Bless America HUH.........
- 1 vote
#23 - Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:16 PM EDTactually catrina, many of the detainees are not guilty, that's part of the problem. They are not linked to terrorists, they were brought in on vague and sometimes demonstrably false information but never released. It's interesting that know that real a holy roller like you has so little respect for the law of the country in which you live.
You've got a real problem with clear thinking and priorities catrina, you need to work on that.
- 2 votes
Thats your opinion, Its funny how you just asume that your opinion is the right one and mine is wrong. May be you should move to Iran!!!!!! Im done your filled with insults not facts or solutions to our country's problems so Im done with this. Keep bitching and blogging. you are pathetic..... Thats all your good for.... Waste of space you are
- 1 vote
#24 - Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:02 PM EDTthere you go again, with nothing intelligent to say you retreat to name calling. Catrina, your position is wrong, that's really all there is to it. Your emotional spew not withstanding you've made NO rational argument in defense of your position.
by the way, it's not my opinion many of the prisoners are innocent, it's a fact. Learn something before you spew ignorance and superstition in the future please. Poking holes in you is almost too easy.
- 3 votes
Catrina, you are new here so I've been cutting you some slack. Many of us have spent a long time building Newsvine into the sort of social network where people are civil and are able to argue without resorting to CAPS and !!!!!!!!!!'s. We have a Code of Honour, which we are required to abide by, and I suggest you read it please. You can see it here.
Apart from this, you've completely ignored my polite requests to keep the conversation within a single thread. I'm not being pedantic - it is very difficult for someone not interested in our discussion to see if there are new comments in other discussions, because most of the threads all belong to this one discussion.
You will find that Newsvine is a vibrant place for good conversation, but we have a culture and we have a certain etiquette. Please respect that when you join us, and you'll quickly become one of us :)
- 2 votes
OHHHHH So you say this to me and not Wheel. I get it..... you only say this to the people who dont agree with you and your opinions. Beetle, If you look at my past posts you will see I was very respectful with my comments. It was only until I was ganged up on and told I was wrong and you were right that I started getting rude. Please read Wheels comments to me and then read mine. wow!!!!!!! What a one sided person you are. Im amazed.. Vibrant place for good conversation. yeah If you aggree with what you are saying. God Bless
- 1 vote
See it is easy to sit back and fire off your opinions about our government from the comfort of ones small world, then pretend your are [righteous] for your convictions
This goes for you too right? Just because people here disagree and think you are wrong, doesn't mean that you have to get rude. I'm sorry that you are outnumbered on this particular seed, but there are seeds on Newsvine on which you wouldn't be, on which more people might agree with you.
It is a vibrant conversation when different sides disagree passionately, but rudeness doesn't have to be part of that.
Perhaps you feel that it is rude for others to not agree with you and for them to think that your position represents fear and a victory for terrorism. It may upset you that your ideas are representative of that to others, but I don't consider it rude to have an opinion, or to think that your opinion is right. The rudeness comes in with how you express and state your opinion or opposition of another opinion.
- 2 votes
Thats your opinion, Its funny how you just asume that your opinion is the right one and mine is wrong, and to express that. May be you should move to Iran!!!!!!
Here in the U.S. we're allowed to think differently than others, to think that we are personally right. Iran may be a little less that way, at least when it comes to expressing a difference of opinion...especially in relation to their government.
And I dont give a rats ass about some detainees and there well fare when they would kill me and my family in a heart beat!! NO I dont care!!!! MY daughter is innocent and the prisoners accused of terror are not...
I just don't believe in the tenet that says: Kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out. One of the main points being made here is that some of the detainees may be innocent. Do you really feel that innocent people should be tortured and broken? Or bombed? There have been so many civilian casualties as a result of our war in Iraq that I can hardly believe it. I know that they weren't all caused by us directly, but many have been...collateral damage, as it is called.
I've heard many people say, Bomb the whole place, in regards to the Mid-East. I don't want to assume that you are in that camp, but would like to know your stance on the idea.
- 2 votes
i am not for bombing the whole middle east. I just find it very hard to believe that Im the only one being called rude here. I blessed all of you and your opinions (yet have not heard the same ) and that is all i have to say. Im off to onother story thankyou
- 1 vote
i am not for bombing the whole middle east.
No, you're not. But you seem to have no problem with the notion of our country torturing people, many of them innocent of any crime except being in the wrong place at the wrong time. You seem to feel no remorse when faced with the certain knowledge that innocent people have been tortured and you see unable to grasp the concept that because others may do evil it's no excuse for us to do it to them.
- 2 votes
OHHHHH So you say this to me and not Wheel
I am sorry you feel this way, but I don't think Wheel came close to calling you a waste of space. It is fine to disagree, indeed that's what makes debating fun, but address the issues not the person. Ad hominem attacks do nothing to further your cause.
If you feel that Wheel was rude to you, or broke the COH in any way, you are also free to report him using the little "!" at the bottom of the comment. When used judiciously this is a very powerful tool.
The reason I have not blessed you is because that does not form part of my worldview, so to do so would be pointless (I would even argue disrespectful). Sorry that you read it otherwise.
MY daughter is innocent and the prisoners accused of terror are not...
Actually, an awful lot of them are innocent. Again, you are arguing that it is better for (innocent) people like me to be tortured than to risk any American lives, giving one nationality greater worth than all others. My comment above (here) sums that up.
If you truly feel that torture is justified in these circumstances, then you should be lobbying your administration to pull out of international treaties which govern how countries may behave as global citizens.
- 3 votes
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